Money Talk Matters

Archive for October, 2009

When my husband and I became engaged, we knew that we were destined to be together. Throughout our dating we had been talking about our past, previous people we dated, my husband’s previous marriages and what we were looking for in a partner. The discussion came up about whether or not, we needed to go to premarital counseling.

Brides and Grooms, I ask you today – what are your goals for premarital counseling? Look at the options below and you decide:

(1) To ensure you and your future spouse have the necessary skills to make your marriage work for a lifetime?

(2) Is it because everyone says you have to yet your heart is not in it?

(3) It is required by the church you attend to be married there?

What areas do you expect to discuss in premarital counseling? Compatibility, Communication, Goals or even finances? If you discuss those issues, how much time do you expect to spend talking about each?

Premarital counseling can be crucial to any relationship. I know that my husband and I did not attend premarital counseling because we were talking about everything even prior to our engagement. We had shared the positives and negatives about relationships we had, financial mistakes we made and what we looked for in a mate. We did not see a benefit to holding anything back.

One of the things I remember saying to him, was do not let anyone have information about you that I do not know about.  No one should walk up to me and tell me something about my husband trying to embarrass me or say I know something you don’t know. I don’t believe in MESS or DRAMA. He did not either.

Prior to marriage is a great time to talk about your finances, dreams and goals that you have. The more you talk you will discover this is someone ou can see yourself with for life or you cannot. Begin talking today.

Since it has been a few days since I posted, I thought today I would write on wives, money and marriage not only because I am a wife, but also because money could mean different things to women. Money in marriage can also present different issues for women. For this reason I am going to share about an experience that I had early in our marriage as a wife.

I remember coming into our marriage with debt, not having a bank account and had not started working. I mean this was within the first month or two of our being married. My husband would get up and go to work, I was finishing school and then would come home in the afternoon and work on his education consulting business.  I began dreaming he was in an accident and I did not have access to any money. I was not on any of his accounts. The bank he had an account at refused to put me on his account because of my own bad debt. We didn’t necessarily have a problem with that. My focus was at that time though was if anything happened to him, I was up the creek. This dream occurred over and over again for about a week to two weeks.

Probably in that second week, there was a particular day when he came home from work and I could not take it anymore. We were best friends and I knew that I could tell him what was happening and we would come up with a solution. So I shared with him, how this dream had been literally haunting me and upsetting me that if something happened to him, I’d pretty much be in the cold. Mind you it was just the two of us, no kids at this point. He said, Babe I am so sorry you have been having a dream like that. Come on let’s go open us an account right now.

So we went to the bank where his business account was and opened a joint account that I could have access to. If I needed something during the day or whatever, then I could go to the bank and get the money I needed to take care of business. Let me preface this, he knew that I was not a shopper and would not spend because I had access.

Lessons you can learn: 

(1) If one of you has bad credit and no bank account, the spouse should make sure the one without finances has access to money to take care of the household or some money for them.

(2) Do not hold back your thoughts or dreams when it comes to money and marriage. That dream was upsetting me and I am sure affecting other thoughts and decisions. Once I shared it and we handled it together, I never had the dream again.

(3) Trust is crucial in marriage, especially when it comes to money. It is imperative that you know your husband or wife when it comes to money. If I had been a different person sure I could have shopped it up as soon as he gave me access to his account. However, he already knew I was not that type of woman.

Wives, I understand we have our own issues when it comes to money and marriage. What would you have done if this was you? Weigh in!

Some of my readers know that our twins are taking a karate class. Well last week they got their karate uniforms which is called a Gi. The uniform has a belt that has to be tied a certain way which is called an Obi. Here is how this works, the twins went to class on Monday night and were learning to tie the “Obi.”

Today at the beginning of our homeschool class, I decided that they were going to show me that they learned how to tie the “Obi”. Of course the daughter does it within 15 minutes – 3 different times. It is now almost an hour later and the son has yet to do it once. What does this have to do with Money in Marriage? I am soooo glad that you asked.

Lesson 1:  We must listen to instruction. When husbands and wives are talking WITH each other about money and marriage we must listen. There are times when husbands and wives are sharing important information about money in marriage and our minds are focused on other things.

Lesson 2:  Money in marriage requires dedication and discipline throughout the marriage. It is not a one time discussion.

Lesson 3:  Our son has not once asked for help in getting the instruction again. Many times husbands and wives are having financial challenges and will not ask for help. Being silent creates more financial challenges and feelings being hurt in the marriage. This also happens because one or both made assumptions when it came to money and marriage.

Lesson 4:  Instead of becoming frustrated to a point of where you will not understand the lesson… step back from the situation and take a deep breath. Then come to the table with a new and clear perspective.

Lesson 5: I know, men and women are different, even when it comes to learning styles. Our son is a visual learner. Therefore, what I decided to do was have him tell me the steps in tying the “Obi” while I put it on. Afterwards, he could do it with me.  When it comes to Money and Marriage, husbands and wives should take the time to know what type of learner they are and what is the preferred method of communication. Then begin talking about Money and Marriage in that regard so that messages are received and ACTION can be taken.

Whoever would have thought lessons from an Obi could be applied to Money and Marriage. Soo having fun with what I do.

Based on the response and questions that came in after the post Money and Marriage as a Solo Effort, I thought it was best to take each question one by one and address them in a post. Take the time to read the original post about Money and Marriage as a Solo Effort if you do not understand the response.

Question 1: 

What about marriages where the husband dumps all financial responsibility on his wife (including making all income) and is quite happy living in his own little world, pottering about, working occasionally at a “fun”, low stress, low pay, part-time job, oblivious to bills and all other responsibilities? Disappears upstairs to play computer games when he comes home. Doesn’t want to know about finances, doesn’t care. I’d love to know if anyone has found a solution to this relationship/finances issue.

Answer:  Dear MF: Let me ask you this question, did the marriage start out this way where the finances were dumped on the wife and the husband had withdrawn into his own world? I imagine you are going to tell me no. If you say no it did not start out that way then answer these questions:

1) What happened for this behavior to become the norm?

2) What was the wife’s role in accepting this new behavior because there came a certain time in the relationship when she deemed this was okay and it has continued. However, now she is not happy with it.

3) Has the wife sat down and tried to talk about finances with her husband in a manner that was more of informative versus panic or frustration? Finances are a part of life. Is he not concerned with eating, living, driving to work, etc.

It is not all the husband’s fault. I am not condoning the behavior – focus on what I am saying.  The wife needs to look at her role in what is happening in their household. Both have some responsibility for what is happening in the marriage right now. Whether or not both of take control for the benefit of the marriage will be up to you and the husband. Do not be so quick to point the figure and say it is your fault. You had a role and still do in what is happening in your home. What’s your next move?

My first response after our daughter said she would get the Thomas toy was the following, remember it takes your money combined to get the toy and it has to be something that both of you will play with. Reader, remember it only has 19 pieces and forms one toy. So she thought about it and went and picked up the pink legos. So she was holding that box and our son was holding the Thomas toy.

Since they were not aware of the big picture, Money class was in session. I said to them, the Thomas toy costs $19.99 and only has 19 pieces which you are paying a little over a $1.00 per piece and said the other legos has 214 pieces for $14.59 which is 0.06 cents per piece. Oh yes, I took it there. I said to our son for each Thomas piece you are paying over a $1.00. With one of these pieces you cannot do anything. I told him you are paying for the name. Only one of you could play with it at a time and could not add on to existing toys you have at home. Then I threw in a Knex building toy which they really like which had 138 pieces and was $8.99 – had to put it in the options. They could build 10 different things with this. I said it costs 0.06 per piece. Then I told them to discuss it amongst themselves and they could tell me what they wanted to do.

This was truly a day in learning the value of a dollar. So our son was holding on to the Thomas toy for dear life. He and his sister began having their discussion about the toys and what they thought. I also said this to them before stepping back with the Thomas toy you have no money left over for anything and with the other one, you have some left over.

Then I stepped back and let them discuss. What do you think happened?

What an interesting day the twins and I had. They asked me to take them to Bass Pro Shop to look at the fish and boats. I thought cool because I have not been in a really long time. So that was our first stop on our outing for today. I must say I thought I saw some fish that weighed more than me. Next was to walk on the different boats and see which one they liked the best.

Of course each one had a different boat they liked. I was good with any of them because of the relaxation that could take place for the entire family. Cody of course would want to be the driver. Hmmm – men! Erica liked the boat that had the lounging couch per se. I must say, it did look quite comfortable. I think we were there at least an hour.

Next stop, Target. I know quite the difference. You have to love kids. Before I share our target money lesson, let me say they had brought their allowance with them just in case they wanted to purchase something. They each knew what they had and had a specific item in mind to purchase. Alright, let the fun begin.

Our son is all about Thomas the Train. So he found this item he wanted and could not purchase it alone. Therefore between him and his sister, they could get it. She on the other hand found this “girly” set of Legos that they could purchase and both really enjoy. Here is part 1 of the lesson – The Thomas the Engine Lego had 19 pieces and it was $19.99 and the “Girly” set of Legos (they were pink) had 214 pieces and was $14.59. Initially, she agreed to purchase Thomas.

What do you think Mom said? This is going to be a 2 part or 3 part lesson because it is very important.

Brides, Grooms, Husbands and Wives take a note. When you enter into marriage realize that prior to your saying I do, you had a life outside of your mate. That life included making financial decisions that were good and some financial decisions that might have been not as good. The money mistakes are a part of you if you chose not to clean them up prior to marriage and are a part of your marriage.

They are a part of your marriage because you will think about them. Once your spouse finds out about them voluntarily or involuntarily is entirely up to you. The result can be different. The question I ask you today is this: Could the financial baggage that is surfacing in your relationship becoming detrimental to the welfare of your union? If so, then what are the steps that you are taking to remove the baggage.

Baggage in itself is not a good thing. Usually tied to baggage of any nature is emotions which leads people to act hastily without thinking about all of the consequences.  Remember, every decision you make has a consequence. Take a few minutes to think long term and not short-term when it comes to your decisions.

The only time that I know of that baggage is good is if it is luggage and you are taking a much deserved vacation. Otherwise financial baggage is not good, revisiting old girlfriends or boyfriend baggage is not good and even previous employment situations that had baggage is not good. It is time to have a clear picture of what you want and where you want your finances and marriage to go.

With that in mind, quit living your past in the present. Live the PRESENT now and take care of NOW, TODAY and the future will take care of itself. This is not a time to keep looking behind you or you will miss opportunities in your present to get your finances in order, to impact your marriage for a lifetime and much more. Sure, it could be thought of as “Not the Norm” – it’s about time. Going along with the norm has ended marriages, caused separations and stopped people from talking about money in marriage. It is a New Day and time for New Financial Beginnings and Plans.

Don’t ignore the baggage.  Baggage  can overtake you or be overwhelming to your spouse. Talk with your spouse today, develop a plan to remove it and BEGIN removing it. You can talk about things all day BUT until you take action it’s just TALK.  JUST DO IT! BE IT!

This question came in and I wanted to get the comments started. Will a marriage break up if one person is willing to work hard to clean up the debt and the other one is not? Let’s jump right in and say, no it does not have to.

First and foremost when dealing with date, prioritize the date in order from the smallest to the largest. If you are not aware of all the debt you have, then order your credit report from one of the credit bureaus so you have an accurate picture of what your credit reveals.

Then once the reports are in, sit down and tak with your spouse about the household financial situation. Make sure that when you have this talk, all minds are clear and you are both focused on your financial picture for now and the future. You cannot begin the journey, if you do not know where you as well as where do you want to end up.

The person that is working hard to clean up the debt needs to get the other person involved. They can make a chart together and establish timelines to have this debt cleaned up. It is imperative that why you are in the cleanup stage new debt is not be creating by anyone.  That defeats the entire purpose and cause even more issues.

Once all the debt is cleaned up it needs to be understood by everyone in the household that new debt should not be created. Ask the other person how did they feel knowing there was debt? What steps can you both take to in order to expedite the cleaning up process. Do not turn into the solo effort on this, it is not necessary.

There are many married couples where one person in the marriage is taking care of the money and the other person has no knowledge of what is truly happening with the household finances. I like to say there is a group of people that are managing money in marriage as a solo effort.

Solo means one. Doing alone. The problem with the solo effort is that the person in this position can get into financial situations where decisions need to be made that affect both the husband and the wife, not just one person. Marriage is the relationship that you are in and have; money is a facet of the marriage. It is important that both husband and wife participate in the financial facet of the marriage. You cannot put all of the responsibility on one person and then disagree with the consequences of the choices they made.

This solo effort can wind up making the person dealing with money feel soooo low that they cannot make an informed and educated financial decision. Yet the other person in the marriage has no idea what is truly happening with the finances until it is almost too late. If your marriage falls into this solo effort, stop it from continuing on this dangerous path and begin talking with your spouse today.

Inclusion is better than exclusion. When spouses are excluded from certain things, it can affect the marriage on a long-term basis. Do not put your spouse in the position of not knowing. Remove the solo effort today and include them in the household finances. You will not have to bear the burden of a lack of finances, late pays on bills and more on your own.

A united effort is better and produces better results. Don’t put all of the responsibility on one spouse. It affects both of you.

Iknow reading that title many of you are already thinking of what grade you are. I want you to read this post and be honest with yourself. Only you know what your money and marriage is about. Take the time to read through and be determined this day to make a change.

Grade  A -  You and your spouse openly and honestly communicate about money in marriage weekly if not several times a week. You have mutual financial goals set and are accomplishing those goals. No one person is bearing the financial burden. You and your spouse have dealt with financial challenges and survived them together without letting the stress of the financial challenges change who you are. You have learned that your love can conquer all and you work together as a team not as opponents. There is no pointing the finger in this grade, each accepts responsibility for financial mistakes and move on to solutions. Husbands and wives in this category have discovered what works best for them joint account or separate account or a combination of both. Have taken financial classes and also helped other couples.

Grade B – You and your spouse communicate about money about twice a month. One person is managing the money and makes sure the other one is knowledgeable about the finances. The person managing the money is bearing the burden of knowing immediately about the finances and tends to stress about it before talking with the other. There have been times when the money manager has been overwhelmed with the financial challenges and managed to get it resolved without including the spouse. When the money manager is overwhelmed it is evident that the personality changes which adds more stress to the marriage. Once it is resolved, returned to natural self. Will get financial help if they feel it is necessary.

Grade C -  You and your spouse are not communicating about money until an unexpected emergency happens. Then you go into panic mode and operate out of desperation. Once the emergency is solved, you return to the same behavior of not talking about money. The person that is managing the money, pays some bills and not others hoping that the spouse does not find out. There are no mutual financial goals. One person begins to feel as if there needs are not being met due to a lack of finances. Want to get help but think you cannot afford it and that leads to more financial mistakes.

Grade D -   You and your spouse found out that one of you came into the marriage with existing debt and doesn’t like it one bit. Furthermore, that person is a shopper. The silent treatment has set in because emotions have taken over because they had a different expectation for their marriage relationship than what is actually happening. The spouse without debt is not even sure if they are going to stay. Every day they think about it while at work and dread coming home because it makes them mad. This spouse without the debt is being driven by emotions and does not even want to look at what could be a solution. This makes the marriage very stressful and could also lead to health problems.  There are thoughts of getting out of debt but embarrassment stops you.

Grade F – There is no communication on any level about money. There is no joint account  – everything is separate. Both parties place the blame on each other which leads to no resolution. They keep ending up in the vicious cycle of debt. All they see is continuous debt and say to themselves why bother, not sure if this marriage is going to last anyway. Husband and wife came to the marriage with financial baggage and things are unraveling in a fast past. While the money issues are unraveling, the husband and wife are growing father and father apart. This couple is not thinking about money and marriage issues in any way, shape or form.

This post was designed to make you evaluate your money and marriage relationship. Are you talking enough? If you would like counseling or want the financial education program I created, send me an email via drtaffy@moneytalkmatters.com .

Copyright ©2009 – Dr. Taffy Wagner – Permission granted to use and reproduce with proper citation.