Money Talk Matters – Premarital Financial Program

I tell you I am such a Court TV junkie and tonight I came across this particular episode that lines up with the previous post about being broke and one future spouse doing everything. Take a look at this:

Problems with this couple:

1) Lack of Communication and Limited Communication

2) Arguing in front of the child

3) She continuously took this gentleman to court. I must admit when it gets to those levels, you do not need to get married.

At the end of the day, this woman does not even remember this person proposing to her. He wants the ring back and stuff that he left. I tell you what I was thinking when I watched this when she walked in she was twisting this ring on her finger. I could not help but wonder if that was the alleged ring. She told the Judge it wasn’t… I still remain somewhat suspicious.

Brides-to-be and grooms-to-be it should not be that hard. If anyone has to get physically abused walk away. That’s not the person for you.

There are many brides-to-be and grooms-to-be that are dealing with one of their future spouses being broke and they are shouldering all the bills during the engagement phase and they are sick of it. It is not only because they are shouldering all the bills, furthermore, they are the one taking care of keeping the house clean, cooking dinner and more. Incidentally, this is beginning to wear on the one that is bringing in the income.

Newsflash – If this is what is happening when you are engaged and you are not expressing your concerns and talking about it, the same will occur once you are married. Notice I said if you are not expressing your concerns – not arguing, calling each other names, walking out and leaving things unresolved. None of those behaviors solve financial shortcomings. Let’s break it down.

When you are engaged and only one of you are bringing in the income – yes initially it seems okay but it will wear off in a short matter of time. Here is what you look at: 1) Does your future spouse have the initiative to change jobs or get a job if he or she is not working; 2) Do they also have bills and you are paying his or her bills in addition to yours and are you able to do it without falling behind on your bills; 3) It sends a message when he or she is not paying her bills during the engagement phase because what will they do when an emergency or situation happens once you are married?

Let’s take it here, what would your parents say if they knew your future spouse was not paying his or her bills and you were paying everything? If you won’t tell them, what keeps you from telling them and why? My purpose here is to show you this could be a red flag because people do not change once they get married. As a matter of fact, after a period of time they get comfortable and what you put up with for a certain period of time becomes acceptable and they do not expect they should change.

You can be sick of shouldering all the bills and are you going to TALK about it? What is it that you want to see happen in your finances while you are engaged and then let’s talk about once you are married. Because normally what happens while you are engaged gets carried over into the marriage. Set the right foundation now for financial and marital happiness not discord.

This is a “hot topic” that I continue to see needs answering. Should parents give married “GROWN” children money. Let me say upfront there are a lot of different factors and I am going to discuss them right here. Because LIFE happens and the answer can vary. Take the time to read this and decide what applies to you or what will you do when your children are grown and married.

First situation: I think it is acceptable for parents to give grown married children money if they are in an emergent situation. It was unexpected, they are not bad money managers but an unexpected sitation has happened. Also as long as the husband and wife, both know the parents gave the money. This does happen and can happen.

Second situation: Parents are loaning their adult child money without the spouse knowing it. This is primarily when the spouse is complaining to parents about their spouse. So the parents are almost taking sides and encouraging separation in money and marriage by their actions. Do not even pretend it does not happen because it does. Parents do not insert yourself in the middle of a husband and wife financial issues. They have to learn how to talk with each other (not argue) and work out their differences. You are not in their home 24/7 and are getting one side of the story.

Third situation: Grown married children are taking advantage of their parents because they know they can. There are probably a husband and wife that are bad money managers based on their own background, then they run to mom and dad to bail them out of their financial troubles because they know they can without any remorse. This in itself makes for debt situations that can tear the marriage apart. What can also end up happening in this situation is that one set of parents become a bank and the other set of parents are almost ignored because they do not open up their wallets. Either way, all of this scenario is bad.

Caution for parents: When brides and grooms get married initially, they need to learn how to rely on each other. Not run to you to bail them out at the first sign of financial stress.

Brides and grooms: Do not go to your parents and speak negatively about yout spouse and money. Once you paint a picture of negative and uncooperation, it is hard to change it back.

Very rarely am I up in the morning to watch the early morning talk shows. However, this morning I was up watching GMA and saw a story about this new website that is an alternative for couples that have disputes. So you do not have to go to People’s Court or even before Judge Mathis (which is one of my favorites). This guy created Sidetaker.com where couples can post their disputes and let people decide how they should handle a situation.

I can readily see why people gravitate to such a site as this because there will always be people that want to give advice. Many people seek the advice of others even when they know what to do. Then there is that group that will continue telling their situation to people until they hear what they want to hear. My favorites are the ones that ask you for your advice and then do the opposite of what you suggest. I am sure many of you can relate to that.

What do you think of Sidetaker.com?

Since it has been a few days since I posted, I thought today I would write on wives, money and marriage not only because I am a wife, but also because money could mean different things to women. Money in marriage can also present different issues for women. For this reason I am going to share about an experience that I had early in our marriage as a wife.

I remember coming into our marriage with debt, not having a bank account and had not started working. I mean this was within the first month or two of our being married. My husband would get up and go to work, I was finishing school and then would come home in the afternoon and work on his education consulting business.  I began dreaming he was in an accident and I did not have access to any money. I was not on any of his accounts. The bank he had an account at refused to put me on his account because of my own bad debt. We didn’t necessarily have a problem with that. My focus was at that time though was if anything happened to him, I was up the creek. This dream occurred over and over again for about a week to two weeks.

Probably in that second week, there was a particular day when he came home from work and I could not take it anymore. We were best friends and I knew that I could tell him what was happening and we would come up with a solution. So I shared with him, how this dream had been literally haunting me and upsetting me that if something happened to him, I’d pretty much be in the cold. Mind you it was just the two of us, no kids at this point. He said, Babe I am so sorry you have been having a dream like that. Come on let’s go open us an account right now.

So we went to the bank where his business account was and opened a joint account that I could have access to. If I needed something during the day or whatever, then I could go to the bank and get the money I needed to take care of business. Let me preface this, he knew that I was not a shopper and would not spend because I had access.

Lessons you can learn: 

(1) If one of you has bad credit and no bank account, the spouse should make sure the one without finances has access to money to take care of the household or some money for them.

(2) Do not hold back your thoughts or dreams when it comes to money and marriage. That dream was upsetting me and I am sure affecting other thoughts and decisions. Once I shared it and we handled it together, I never had the dream again.

(3) Trust is crucial in marriage, especially when it comes to money. It is imperative that you know your husband or wife when it comes to money. If I had been a different person sure I could have shopped it up as soon as he gave me access to his account. However, he already knew I was not that type of woman.

Wives, I understand we have our own issues when it comes to money and marriage. What would you have done if this was you? Weigh in!

Iknow reading that title many of you are already thinking of what grade you are. I want you to read this post and be honest with yourself. Only you know what your money and marriage is about. Take the time to read through and be determined this day to make a change.

Grade  A -  You and your spouse openly and honestly communicate about money in marriage weekly if not several times a week. You have mutual financial goals set and are accomplishing those goals. No one person is bearing the financial burden. You and your spouse have dealt with financial challenges and survived them together without letting the stress of the financial challenges change who you are. You have learned that your love can conquer all and you work together as a team not as opponents. There is no pointing the finger in this grade, each accepts responsibility for financial mistakes and move on to solutions. Husbands and wives in this category have discovered what works best for them joint account or separate account or a combination of both. Have taken financial classes and also helped other couples.

Grade B – You and your spouse communicate about money about twice a month. One person is managing the money and makes sure the other one is knowledgeable about the finances. The person managing the money is bearing the burden of knowing immediately about the finances and tends to stress about it before talking with the other. There have been times when the money manager has been overwhelmed with the financial challenges and managed to get it resolved without including the spouse. When the money manager is overwhelmed it is evident that the personality changes which adds more stress to the marriage. Once it is resolved, returned to natural self. Will get financial help if they feel it is necessary.

Grade C -  You and your spouse are not communicating about money until an unexpected emergency happens. Then you go into panic mode and operate out of desperation. Once the emergency is solved, you return to the same behavior of not talking about money. The person that is managing the money, pays some bills and not others hoping that the spouse does not find out. There are no mutual financial goals. One person begins to feel as if there needs are not being met due to a lack of finances. Want to get help but think you cannot afford it and that leads to more financial mistakes.

Grade D -   You and your spouse found out that one of you came into the marriage with existing debt and doesn’t like it one bit. Furthermore, that person is a shopper. The silent treatment has set in because emotions have taken over because they had a different expectation for their marriage relationship than what is actually happening. The spouse without debt is not even sure if they are going to stay. Every day they think about it while at work and dread coming home because it makes them mad. This spouse without the debt is being driven by emotions and does not even want to look at what could be a solution. This makes the marriage very stressful and could also lead to health problems.  There are thoughts of getting out of debt but embarrassment stops you.

Grade F – There is no communication on any level about money. There is no joint account  – everything is separate. Both parties place the blame on each other which leads to no resolution. They keep ending up in the vicious cycle of debt. All they see is continuous debt and say to themselves why bother, not sure if this marriage is going to last anyway. Husband and wife came to the marriage with financial baggage and things are unraveling in a fast past. While the money issues are unraveling, the husband and wife are growing father and father apart. This couple is not thinking about money and marriage issues in any way, shape or form.

This post was designed to make you evaluate your money and marriage relationship. Are you talking enough? If you would like counseling or want the financial education program I created, send me an email via drtaffy@moneytalkmatters.com .

Copyright ©2009 – Dr. Taffy Wagner – Permission granted to use and reproduce with proper citation.

Are you reading this and are a bride to be or even a groom? Do you have a financial plan before you say “I Do”? The plan cannot be don’t discuss it and it will all go away. Hmmm, I wonder how many people who thought that prior to getting married are no longer married. I bet you could find some, maybe even close friends, family members or even co-workers. They may not say anything to you beforehand, but afterwards – you will get more advice than you need.

Yes, I understand completely that it is hard to talk about money. But is it harder to lose the love of your life because of financial issues that smothered the marriage to where you could no longer talk to each other? Or is it harder to be faced with losing your home because you did not speak up and get financial guidance to stop the vicious cycle of debt you were in because of a lack of knowledge? Could you literally be one phone call or email away from an answer that could turn your life around or finances around but you will not know because you are embarrassed to share that you have made financial mistakes?

At the end of the day, you are making a choice about your finances, marriage and your future. What do you want to see happen for your money and marriage? How does it happen? I can assure you, embarrassment and not taking action only causes you to remain the way you are.

This is definitely a loaded post. When I saw it come in, I couldn’t help but think if you want to end up headed to divorce court, sure.  Why do I say that? Let’s be honest when a son or daughter marries, they are now the husband or wife of that person and that relationship has priority in marriage. That husband and wife will have enough issues of their own that need to be handled without bringing in a parent into it.

I do not think a parent should be handling the daughter and her husband’s money. That can pose problems for the husband and wife. The father could begin talking to the daughter about the expenses without the husband and insinuating different things. Then the daughter says something to her husband in a derogatory fashion. Now, not only do you have a conflict between the husband and wife, but also the husband and the father-in-law.

I believe it is okay if the parent would like to make suggestions based on information shared with them, that is one thing. But for the parent to be managing the money of two grown adults – not such a good idea. If the husband and wife need financial guidance, then they should consult an unbiased third party that will focus on the best interest of the marriage.

Now you see why I said sure, if you want to be on the journey towards divorce. Money is one of the top reasons for divorce. There is no need to add a parental relationship that focuses on the husband and wife’s money to really muddy the water and put relationships on edge. Imagine what would happen to the husband or wife? Now they are stuck in the middle and it is a no win situation either way. Think long and hard before doing this.

Let me say right off I know this one is going to be loaded. When the question came in to my email, I thought to myself there are other wives this is happening to or vice versa. So let’s take it one step at a time.

Obviously the wife who wrote in anonymously found out after the fact. First question, how did she find out? Did she discover that money was missing from their joint accout? Or did he say, by the way honey a couple of weeks ago I loaned this friend some money?

I guarantee you the wife that wrote that sent that question in, is more than likely mad because he did it and she did not know about, may not even like the friend the money was loaned to and probably feels she cannot trust her man with their money because he will give it away to whomever he wants without talking with her about it as if she does not have a say so.

Money is a serious subject that cannot be avoided between a husband and wife. Husband and wives do you have an understanding about loaning money to friends, relatives or colleagues? If you do not, this is something that should be discussed beforehand. It will prevent the type of email I received.

When people lose trust in relationships, it is hard to get it back. It takes a lot of work. Then the question becomes did he really loan the money or give the money. Either way it is a serious discussion that must be had in order to prevent what the couple is dealing with right now in their relationship.

This is not saying you should not loan money, but husbands and wives should know what they agree on when it comes to loaning money, to whom and agreeing even on an amount that will not affect their household finances. Be careful, because you do not want to become a personal banker at the risk of your own marriage. It’s not worth the risk.

Last night I received this question from a colleague via my facebook page. Yes, I am on facebook as well. This is the exact wording – I still find so many do not discuss money before they get married. Why is that? What are your thoughts? It is such a vital topic that people seem to avoid for one reason or another.

I kept thinking about it last night and decided to write on it today. Money has been labeled that “taboo” topic. However, people are beginning to talk about it because of what has happened with the economy. Most of the ones that are discussing it though are already married. The effect of the economy when it comes to brides and grooms are discussing how to have their dream wedding for less. There are couples that are even going so far as to ask their guests to pay for their wedding. Mind you, some of those couples are getting married for the second time and I have clear views on that, but I digress.

Below are some of the reasons I know people are not talking about money before marriage:

1) Fear – Afraid if they tell their soon to be spouse about their financial mistakes, they will break off the engagement or wedding. Result: Other financial mistakes occur while you are not sharing about the initial ones.

2) Secret – Believe if they can just get beyond the wedding day, then they will be the ones to manage the money and their spouse will not find out. Result: it does eventually come out and can lead to arguments and trust being removed.

3) Caught UP in the Wedding Day – Both the bride and groom are so “caught up” in the wedding day, they do not even think to talk about money. Result: as soon as the honeymoon is over and the other one finds out about their debt, the arguments begin, distrust occurs and much more.

4) Denial - Don’t discuss money because they think they have a handle on everything. Result:  As soon as that unexpected financial expense happens, they don’t know what to do. Usually turn to mom and dad instead of each other.

5) Want to be a statistic – By not discussing money before marriage, couples are choosing to go down the path of potentially becoming a divorce statistic. Getting divorced because of money.

6) Don’t soon to be spouse to they are a shopper. This way they can walk down the aisle and then attempt to curb it initially and then revert back to their trueself.

7) Lack of trust. They do not trust the person when it comes to money based on past baggage with someone else, so they are not even willing to open that door.

Those are some of the reasons people would not discuss money before marriage. I don’t agree with them because at the end of the day, all of them could lead to divorce court.

What do you think?