Money Talk Matters – Bride and Groom Money Talk©

Brides-to-be and grooms are preparing for their wedding. One comes from a wealthy family and next thing that happens, the groom is presented with a prenuptial agreement. The parents like the groom but say to the bride, before you walk down the aisle to marry this man; we want to protect your assets and what we have left you. We are not saying you cannot marry him, BUT you must have a prenuptial agreement in place.

Is it the parent’s place to demand the son or daughter have a prenuptial agreement? Or should the son or daughter be wise enough to know to have a prenup? Or is their relationship based on love and they are not concerned about this type of agreement? Who should be using a prenup and does it set you up for divorce?

Let’s be realistic, there are some parents who will demand explicitly their son or daughter have a prenuptial agreement in place before they marry their fiancé AND they will not move from this place. They are not saying they do not love that fiancé; however, the reason behind their wanting a prenuptial agreement because some parents have accumulated wealth, are funding trusts for their children or possibly handing over interest in family business to their children and want to ensure children’s financial interests are protected.

There are also the circumstances where there are children from a previous marriage and property that should be handed down should be protected. Furthermore, it can be used to protect the future spouse from debt. Utilizing a prenuptial agreement does not say that you are planning for your marriage to end in divorce. There are different circumstances which warrant a prenup and some circumstances that do not.

As a bride or groom, if you are presented with a prenuptial agreement and you are not a professional athlete, celebrity or even if your family does not come from wealth, there are several factors you should consider before signing this document:

1) How were you presented with the prenuptial agreement? Did you receive this document within weeks of the marriage or were you given the prenuptial agreement at least several months prior to the wedding? The timing of the document can say a lot about your future spouse. Did your future spouse hope that you were so in love with him or her that you would just sign the document and not read it? Once you read the document will you discover that you get nothing? What will you think about this person that you thought you knew so well?

2) You should consult with your own lawyer to review this document in its entirety and ask if there are clauses that need to be adjusted on the basis of fairness. It is important to make sure that it is fair on behalf of the husband and the wife.

I remember a few years ago, a friend was saying she had been presented with a prenuptial agreement and it was one-sided. This friend could not reach an agreement with her future spouse when it came to the prenuptial agreement and they ended up not getting married. Understand just like that situation, you could begin to see the true person when a prenuptial agreement is involved and even moreso if it involves money. Money tends to make people behave out of character or it is their true character.

We all know that money is a hard topic to talk about. One thing is for sure, if you are presented with a prenuptial agreement the discussion is being put on the table whether you like it or not. Does that mean a prenuptial agreement is a bad thing for you? Not necessarily. There are circumstances that call for a prenuptial and there are times when people are using it unnecessarily and causing strife. Either way, it is important that brides and grooms do their research prior to signing a prenuptial agreement. I don’t advocate signing it because you know they love you without doing your due diligence. The message behind a prenuptial agreement may be the opposite of what you thought.

Recommended Reading:

Brides and grooms dealing with money matters prior to marriage:
http://www.moneytalkmatters.com/2009/11/30/engaged-couples-dealing-with-money-matters/

For more information regading prenuptial agreements, visit the link:
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/article-29569.html

I was thinking that this week and everyday, let’s face it you should ensure that you are comfortable with talking about money with your bride or groom-to-be during the engagement. Money issues will happen during that first year of marriage that can literally tear the marriage apart and leave you both in divorce court if you both are not strong and secure in your relationship. Its not about whether or not you have been together for a really long time, its more about your level of communication and being a team.

There are a lot of brides and grooms that treat each other as if they are opponents instead of allies. What is the point of being married if you are going to be against each other instead of for each other. It will not take much to tear you apart if you have that mindset. Should you be discussing money on a regular basis during engagement? Yes. Why you ask? Because not only does it costs money to have a wedding (regardless of who is paying for it), you both have an opportunity to see how each one of you handles money.

Are you being cautious or a spendthrift? Are you staying within budget or going over budget every chance you get because you want the wedding of your dreams at everyone else’s expense. Make sure you are sending the right message and that you are not creating an environment of financial stress and strain even during the engagement.

This is a “hot topic” that I continue to see needs answering. Should parents give married “GROWN” children money. Let me say upfront there are a lot of different factors and I am going to discuss them right here. Because LIFE happens and the answer can vary. Take the time to read this and decide what applies to you or what will you do when your children are grown and married.

First situation: I think it is acceptable for parents to give grown married children money if they are in an emergent situation. It was unexpected, they are not bad money managers but an unexpected sitation has happened. Also as long as the husband and wife, both know the parents gave the money. This does happen and can happen.

Second situation: Parents are loaning their adult child money without the spouse knowing it. This is primarily when the spouse is complaining to parents about their spouse. So the parents are almost taking sides and encouraging separation in money and marriage by their actions. Do not even pretend it does not happen because it does. Parents do not insert yourself in the middle of a husband and wife financial issues. They have to learn how to talk with each other (not argue) and work out their differences. You are not in their home 24/7 and are getting one side of the story.

Third situation: Grown married children are taking advantage of their parents because they know they can. There are probably a husband and wife that are bad money managers based on their own background, then they run to mom and dad to bail them out of their financial troubles because they know they can without any remorse. This in itself makes for debt situations that can tear the marriage apart. What can also end up happening in this situation is that one set of parents become a bank and the other set of parents are almost ignored because they do not open up their wallets. Either way, all of this scenario is bad.

Caution for parents: When brides and grooms get married initially, they need to learn how to rely on each other. Not run to you to bail them out at the first sign of financial stress.

Brides and grooms: Do not go to your parents and speak negatively about yout spouse and money. Once you paint a picture of negative and uncooperation, it is hard to change it back.

Very rarely am I up in the morning to watch the early morning talk shows. However, this morning I was up watching GMA and saw a story about this new website that is an alternative for couples that have disputes. So you do not have to go to People’s Court or even before Judge Mathis (which is one of my favorites). This guy created Sidetaker.com where couples can post their disputes and let people decide how they should handle a situation.

I can readily see why people gravitate to such a site as this because there will always be people that want to give advice. Many people seek the advice of others even when they know what to do. Then there is that group that will continue telling their situation to people until they hear what they want to hear. My favorites are the ones that ask you for your advice and then do the opposite of what you suggest. I am sure many of you can relate to that.

What do you think of Sidetaker.com?

Since it has been a few days since I posted, I thought today I would write on wives, money and marriage not only because I am a wife, but also because money could mean different things to women. Money in marriage can also present different issues for women. For this reason I am going to share about an experience that I had early in our marriage as a wife.

I remember coming into our marriage with debt, not having a bank account and had not started working. I mean this was within the first month or two of our being married. My husband would get up and go to work, I was finishing school and then would come home in the afternoon and work on his education consulting business.  I began dreaming he was in an accident and I did not have access to any money. I was not on any of his accounts. The bank he had an account at refused to put me on his account because of my own bad debt. We didn’t necessarily have a problem with that. My focus was at that time though was if anything happened to him, I was up the creek. This dream occurred over and over again for about a week to two weeks.

Probably in that second week, there was a particular day when he came home from work and I could not take it anymore. We were best friends and I knew that I could tell him what was happening and we would come up with a solution. So I shared with him, how this dream had been literally haunting me and upsetting me that if something happened to him, I’d pretty much be in the cold. Mind you it was just the two of us, no kids at this point. He said, Babe I am so sorry you have been having a dream like that. Come on let’s go open us an account right now.

So we went to the bank where his business account was and opened a joint account that I could have access to. If I needed something during the day or whatever, then I could go to the bank and get the money I needed to take care of business. Let me preface this, he knew that I was not a shopper and would not spend because I had access.

Lessons you can learn: 

(1) If one of you has bad credit and no bank account, the spouse should make sure the one without finances has access to money to take care of the household or some money for them.

(2) Do not hold back your thoughts or dreams when it comes to money and marriage. That dream was upsetting me and I am sure affecting other thoughts and decisions. Once I shared it and we handled it together, I never had the dream again.

(3) Trust is crucial in marriage, especially when it comes to money. It is imperative that you know your husband or wife when it comes to money. If I had been a different person sure I could have shopped it up as soon as he gave me access to his account. However, he already knew I was not that type of woman.

Wives, I understand we have our own issues when it comes to money and marriage. What would you have done if this was you? Weigh in!

Based on the response and questions that came in after the post Money and Marriage as a Solo Effort, I thought it was best to take each question one by one and address them in a post. Take the time to read the original post about Money and Marriage as a Solo Effort if you do not understand the response.

Question 1: 

What about marriages where the husband dumps all financial responsibility on his wife (including making all income) and is quite happy living in his own little world, pottering about, working occasionally at a “fun”, low stress, low pay, part-time job, oblivious to bills and all other responsibilities? Disappears upstairs to play computer games when he comes home. Doesn’t want to know about finances, doesn’t care. I’d love to know if anyone has found a solution to this relationship/finances issue.

Answer:  Dear MF: Let me ask you this question, did the marriage start out this way where the finances were dumped on the wife and the husband had withdrawn into his own world? I imagine you are going to tell me no. If you say no it did not start out that way then answer these questions:

1) What happened for this behavior to become the norm?

2) What was the wife’s role in accepting this new behavior because there came a certain time in the relationship when she deemed this was okay and it has continued. However, now she is not happy with it.

3) Has the wife sat down and tried to talk about finances with her husband in a manner that was more of informative versus panic or frustration? Finances are a part of life. Is he not concerned with eating, living, driving to work, etc.

It is not all the husband’s fault. I am not condoning the behavior – focus on what I am saying.  The wife needs to look at her role in what is happening in their household. Both have some responsibility for what is happening in the marriage right now. Whether or not both of take control for the benefit of the marriage will be up to you and the husband. Do not be so quick to point the figure and say it is your fault. You had a role and still do in what is happening in your home. What’s your next move?

Brides, Grooms, Husbands and Wives take a note. When you enter into marriage realize that prior to your saying I do, you had a life outside of your mate. That life included making financial decisions that were good and some financial decisions that might have been not as good. The money mistakes are a part of you if you chose not to clean them up prior to marriage and are a part of your marriage.

They are a part of your marriage because you will think about them. Once your spouse finds out about them voluntarily or involuntarily is entirely up to you. The result can be different. The question I ask you today is this: Could the financial baggage that is surfacing in your relationship becoming detrimental to the welfare of your union? If so, then what are the steps that you are taking to remove the baggage.

Baggage in itself is not a good thing. Usually tied to baggage of any nature is emotions which leads people to act hastily without thinking about all of the consequences.  Remember, every decision you make has a consequence. Take a few minutes to think long term and not short-term when it comes to your decisions.

The only time that I know of that baggage is good is if it is luggage and you are taking a much deserved vacation. Otherwise financial baggage is not good, revisiting old girlfriends or boyfriend baggage is not good and even previous employment situations that had baggage is not good. It is time to have a clear picture of what you want and where you want your finances and marriage to go.

With that in mind, quit living your past in the present. Live the PRESENT now and take care of NOW, TODAY and the future will take care of itself. This is not a time to keep looking behind you or you will miss opportunities in your present to get your finances in order, to impact your marriage for a lifetime and much more. Sure, it could be thought of as “Not the Norm” – it’s about time. Going along with the norm has ended marriages, caused separations and stopped people from talking about money in marriage. It is a New Day and time for New Financial Beginnings and Plans.

Don’t ignore the baggage.  Baggage  can overtake you or be overwhelming to your spouse. Talk with your spouse today, develop a plan to remove it and BEGIN removing it. You can talk about things all day BUT until you take action it’s just TALK.  JUST DO IT! BE IT!

There are many married couples where one person in the marriage is taking care of the money and the other person has no knowledge of what is truly happening with the household finances. I like to say there is a group of people that are managing money in marriage as a solo effort.

Solo means one. Doing alone. The problem with the solo effort is that the person in this position can get into financial situations where decisions need to be made that affect both the husband and the wife, not just one person. Marriage is the relationship that you are in and have; money is a facet of the marriage. It is important that both husband and wife participate in the financial facet of the marriage. You cannot put all of the responsibility on one person and then disagree with the consequences of the choices they made.

This solo effort can wind up making the person dealing with money feel soooo low that they cannot make an informed and educated financial decision. Yet the other person in the marriage has no idea what is truly happening with the finances until it is almost too late. If your marriage falls into this solo effort, stop it from continuing on this dangerous path and begin talking with your spouse today.

Inclusion is better than exclusion. When spouses are excluded from certain things, it can affect the marriage on a long-term basis. Do not put your spouse in the position of not knowing. Remove the solo effort today and include them in the household finances. You will not have to bear the burden of a lack of finances, late pays on bills and more on your own.

A united effort is better and produces better results. Don’t put all of the responsibility on one spouse. It affects both of you.

Iknow reading that title many of you are already thinking of what grade you are. I want you to read this post and be honest with yourself. Only you know what your money and marriage is about. Take the time to read through and be determined this day to make a change.

Grade  A -  You and your spouse openly and honestly communicate about money in marriage weekly if not several times a week. You have mutual financial goals set and are accomplishing those goals. No one person is bearing the financial burden. You and your spouse have dealt with financial challenges and survived them together without letting the stress of the financial challenges change who you are. You have learned that your love can conquer all and you work together as a team not as opponents. There is no pointing the finger in this grade, each accepts responsibility for financial mistakes and move on to solutions. Husbands and wives in this category have discovered what works best for them joint account or separate account or a combination of both. Have taken financial classes and also helped other couples.

Grade B – You and your spouse communicate about money about twice a month. One person is managing the money and makes sure the other one is knowledgeable about the finances. The person managing the money is bearing the burden of knowing immediately about the finances and tends to stress about it before talking with the other. There have been times when the money manager has been overwhelmed with the financial challenges and managed to get it resolved without including the spouse. When the money manager is overwhelmed it is evident that the personality changes which adds more stress to the marriage. Once it is resolved, returned to natural self. Will get financial help if they feel it is necessary.

Grade C -  You and your spouse are not communicating about money until an unexpected emergency happens. Then you go into panic mode and operate out of desperation. Once the emergency is solved, you return to the same behavior of not talking about money. The person that is managing the money, pays some bills and not others hoping that the spouse does not find out. There are no mutual financial goals. One person begins to feel as if there needs are not being met due to a lack of finances. Want to get help but think you cannot afford it and that leads to more financial mistakes.

Grade D -   You and your spouse found out that one of you came into the marriage with existing debt and doesn’t like it one bit. Furthermore, that person is a shopper. The silent treatment has set in because emotions have taken over because they had a different expectation for their marriage relationship than what is actually happening. The spouse without debt is not even sure if they are going to stay. Every day they think about it while at work and dread coming home because it makes them mad. This spouse without the debt is being driven by emotions and does not even want to look at what could be a solution. This makes the marriage very stressful and could also lead to health problems.  There are thoughts of getting out of debt but embarrassment stops you.

Grade F – There is no communication on any level about money. There is no joint account  – everything is separate. Both parties place the blame on each other which leads to no resolution. They keep ending up in the vicious cycle of debt. All they see is continuous debt and say to themselves why bother, not sure if this marriage is going to last anyway. Husband and wife came to the marriage with financial baggage and things are unraveling in a fast past. While the money issues are unraveling, the husband and wife are growing father and father apart. This couple is not thinking about money and marriage issues in any way, shape or form.

This post was designed to make you evaluate your money and marriage relationship. Are you talking enough? If you would like counseling or want the financial education program I created, send me an email via drtaffy@moneytalkmatters.com .

Copyright ©2009 – Dr. Taffy Wagner – Permission granted to use and reproduce with proper citation.

Okay, I thought I had read it all but I was wrong. I was doing my usual research and discovered this story that a Psychic is sued for $80,500 after failing to heal a marriage. I cannot resist saying this WHAT! People are people and make decisions on the past, emotions, …BAGGAGE. I know you have heard the saying, they saw you coming. Clearly they saw this person coming.

When you have marriage issues, both people need to step back and be honest with each other about what they have and have not done that leads to marital issues and stress. There are reasons that people tend to react a certain way and husbands and wives need to take the time to truly get to know who they are married to. Sure marital stress does not begin right away but there could be previous situations that cause marital stress early once revealed.

Husbands and wives should not take each other for granted and appreciate who they are. They are going to change and grow throughout the relationship – that’s a given. Accept them for who they are and not who you want them to be.  Remember, no one is perfect and everyone makes mistakes. If you say you forgive, then forgive and move on. Do not keep bringing up the past to your spouse. If you do so, that means you did not truly forgive when you said you did. That in itself could also hurt the marriage.

Be careful whoyou consult for marriage counseling!